anti-bush sentiment

[phlyRy]

so, i know people who dislike bush and his policies so much that they voted and "prayed" that kerry wins. they even claimed that they will move out of this country. it seems as though at this point bush has essentially won. so i would like to have some people share their sentiment here.

i know i voted because i'm almost one of those people i mentioned. the election had turned out to be a waiting game of which bush had a running lead throughout. so i'm not surprised for the most part. i didn't expect kerry to pull ahead. as a matter of fact, nothing SHOCKING has really even happened. i'm not even sure that what didn't happen that was shocking either. the turn out for the age group of the 19-29 was fairly low despite how celebrities and mtv and vh1 have been beating it over our heads to let your voice be heard. i (only) felt very disappointed by that fact.

so, how many people who could have voted voted? how many didn't? why? and finally, i would like to know in relation to that, how many people hated bush to the point that they would vote?

p.s. i contemplated putting this thread in the political section but then i figured that i'm not really asking for political opinions but rather sentiment and maybe a poll of how many people voted.

[dark angel]

I, too, am incredibly dissapointed in the youth voter turnout. Bush winning doesn't surprise me, but learning about the youth voter turnout made me dissapointed. And the 11 states that banned gay marriage made me cry. I was shocked by those 2 things, and thats all.

[Eric]

I voted the last minute (7:45-ish), I wasn't too impressed with either candidates.

[Dmytrin]

Kerry was the lesser of the two evils... too bad that chimpanze won again...

[phlyRy]

the ban on gay marriage upsets me... not that i was aware that the decision was in progress so...

overall, it seems that the whole country continues to make me feel an increase in conservativism. the fact that we aren't making progress but rather going back on mentality seems to throw people in despair. i feel like this country has not been moving in terms of that. even europe seems to know to be more open minded and it's been around a lot longer than the US has. i would actually want to understand why that is...how countries' mentalities come about? was there times in european history were there exists a parallel amount of stubbornness?

[Eric]

I'm just amazed how the country is more concerned about social issues than the economy.... but whatever.

[add]
I'm not saying Kerry can do much better than Bush in terms of fiscal policy.

[Totchi]

I was mildly surprised that the margin between those two were so close at times.

And yes, I agree. Instead of worrying about the economy and people over in other countries, we're more worried about who gets to get hitched or not. I'm a bit upset about that because (I really don't care what someone's opinion about it, it doesn't really matter with this statement...) we've only had so few amendments, and they were usually for the freedom of others.

[phlyRy]

i had a co-worker who also seemed amazed at the fact that "moral values" mattered more than getting employed and fixing the economy.

[Star of Sorrow]

I wasn't suprised that Bush won...I mean, it was just a feeling.

[Kinael]

Eric is right, both candidates were horrible.

The saddest thing about this is that my Kerry jokes will no longer be in style. And no one will listen to them. Thankfully I didn't take the time to assemble a file of them.

2008 looks fun though.

[Eric]

Hey bro, join my American Fascist Party! I've got one of my homeboys with me on this. If you join, you'll be the third member! :D

[Kinael]

I get to be Propaganda Minister!

On Topic: To give some outsider perspective . . .

Kids on campus showed an overwhelming depressing mood here in Canada, I wasn't too pleased. Like, yeah, what's with the long face? You lost your porn collection? Canadians favour Kerry by a large margin, because they have no idea whatsoever about American politics.

[Eric]

I'm beginning more and more convinced that a violent coup d'etat is the method of achieving Kerry's campaign slogan of, "Help is on the way!"

The American Fascist Party is looking for presidential (e.g. authoritarian) candidates for 2008 (or whenever we see fit to seize power). We are also taking monetary donations!

[Urd]

To add to what Kinael has said, over where I'm at, a lot of people were disappointed that John Kerry lost. Quite frankly, I'm not at all surprised that he lost, I'm more surprised by how close the margin was. My classmates are certainly welcome to bicker all they want, but I don't think too many of them have realized that they're not American so they obviously can't vote, and thus their opinions bears zero weight.

[phlyRy]

is no one else upset about the youth voter turnout? i find it incredibly lame... then again...people don't even know the words to the star spangled banner.

this country is currently doomed. countries hate us and our economy is not doing terribly well...

[Lizzy]

I would have voted if I was old enough...but don't the youth vote very little in all countries? I mean, in here (Finland) politics are just so boring, that no one under 30 really cares to vote...but to not vote at the US election...wow. The outcome affects just about every country with America being what it is nowadays, so it's quite odd.

But my history teacher said that it's a good thing Bush was selected, because now he has 4 years to mend all the stupidities he has done. Kerry would have trouble making everything the way it was before. I hope Bush learned something from the losses. And even though I understand his opinion (my teacher's, not Bush's) I would vote for anyone except Bush.

And no, I don't understand US politics, so this may be biased.

[Kinael]

No I just find it funny how the general impression is that 'teenagers/young people are disgruntled with Bush' yet those who could, did nothing to make a change. I guess they're just good at bitching.

[AnguishedBlade]

.
Canadians favour Kerry by a large margin, because they have no idea whatsoever about American politics.

I guess it's because Bush was an asshole during his first 4 years.

[phlyRy]

maybe the extent of being disgruntled doesn't overwhelm the apathy inherent... people are attributing the lack of youth voters as a sign of apathy, and i really would like to know for a fact if that was the case this year...

i don't know what to say...i voted for the first time this year, and it turned out to be so easy to do. easy to register and the polling places were very accessible. just my experience. maybe it's just a mentality where everything is hard that makes people not try anything even if it's completely worth doing.

[Kinael]

I guess it's because Bush was an asshole during his first 4 years.

You know, Americans are pretty tolerant this year, especially given how every other country seemed to think they know better than Americans about who they should vote for. Think about it, if in 2002, I go 'Don't vote for Schroeder, vote for Stoiber!' in Germany, what the fuck would Germans tell me? Or, in 2004, I go to Spain and say 'Don't vote for Zapatero, vote for Majoy!'? Or, later in 2004, I go to Australia and say 'Don't vote for Laham, vote for Howard!'?

If I were an American, I'd almost be tempted to vote for Bush regardless of his qualities just to dick around with other people 3000 miles away trying to tell me who to vote for.

[phlyRy]

on a lighter note, despite how most of the people here do not have the sentiment that bush is really the worst that could happen... and despite how kinael suggests americans to spite the rest of the world for TELLING us who to vote for...

http://www.sorryeverybody.com/

it would be funny if u share the sentiment...i just figured there are people on met who haven't posted but have been reading might enjoy it.

[Star of Sorrow]

hehehe. That's pretty funny.

anyhows, I'm kinda disappointed that the youth voter tunout was low. But at least it was higher than the last election.

[kyrien]

I almost didn't vote because neither candidate really appealed to me and because New York State is Democratic anyway so it's not like my vote -really- matters (unless all Democrats thought that, then we'd be kicking ourselves, lol), but my dad wanted me to go so we took a walk to the elementary school. I stood the booth for about a minute, just looking at the switches for Bush and Kerry. Reason for Bush, is that we're in the middle of some half assed war, and it would be best to stick to the same president that started it rather than elect someone new who may probably try to change things and possibly introduce more factors. At least with Bush, we have an idea of what to expect. As far as I know, Kerry didn't really disclose hints of what his plans would be. Reason for Kerry is that I think Bush's priorities is skewed, and appealing to those who think it matters who can be officially wed or what general religion the population believes in. I suppose those states that banned same-sex marriage would have voted for Bush anyway, but I was annoyed that, while the country is economically and politically in a bind, who people can morally have sex with would be soooo important that it'd become such an issue and critical part of his campaign. Also, I just feel it's an embarassment for Bush to be president... he's probably not as stupid as people make him out to be, but he's not exactly very bright, either.

To be honest, I don't feel anything about Bush getting re-elected. I would have preferred Kerry for a change in leadership, for better or worse, but honestly, I don't think either would have really made too much of a difference.

On the other hand, what concerns me is that the Republicans have the House, the Senate, and the White House... and I wonder if Bush will use this opportunity to promote his moralistic family-(un)friendly intentions when he should really be concentrating on getting us out of the mess we're in.

[Kinael]

Eh, I'm not really suggesting Americans are voting for Bush just to spite other countries, that would be kind of lame. But there's always a negative response if you try to force something on someone. And the youth turnout (for ages 18 - 24? or 26?) was the same for the past two presidential elections: 17%.

It'd be kind of interesting to see if people were so focused on the presidential election that they didn't vote for the congressional, senatorial, or gubernational elections, if they belonged to those particular states. Republicans probably would've picked up more seats if they fielded some better candidates.

[phlyRy]

Actually...Michigan and Oregon passed the ban and some people were a bit surprised by it. Michigan and Oregon were for Kerry. Just a bit of trivia.

I hope that Bush will have some sense knocked into him and rectify his mistakes, the economy and fixing the war he started without a clear picture of how it would pan out. IF he could do that then I guess it wouldn't matter so much. A lot of people I know, including me feel sad that Bush won, BUT I felt that Bush would win...I only hoped that my feeling was wrong.

I was also bothered by by the lack of balance in our government. As I followed the elections the Republicans gaining more control of Congress...It really could get worse with the Supreme Court judges ready to retire, because Bush will dictate that. Then REALLY there will be no balance at all...with all being conservative.

[kyrien]

To expand on my previous comment about the Republicans controlling the government (and by no means did I intend that comment as a stab at Republicans), and on phlyRy's comment about a lack of balance... Ideally, it should not matter which party is in power. Sure, they will try to pass bills/laws reflecting their beliefs and stand, but in the end, their agendas should be for the benefit of the American people, not their party.

Of course, this is just optimistic talk, and it should not be expected no matter which party is in power, if either is. But the way the government seems to be heading now makes me think that those in power aren't working for the people by means of their beliefs, but rather, for their own personal agendas FOR their beliefs.

I was reading someone's Xanga that says troops and citizens should be loyal to their country. That is true, we must also distinguish the difference between loyalty to a country, and loyalty to a man. I can say quite confidently that despite what the government has done in the past, and whoever is in power, the United States... New York City, is still my home. My ethnic roots may lie in China, Hong Kong, Asia, whatever, but in the end, my loyalty is to the country for what it is, not what is representing it.

[Eric]

Being the devil's advocate, their personal agendas are frequently for the good of the country. Like I've said plenty of times, sure, anti-war protestors do make a valid statement but the hawks (e.g. me!) see our stance as bolstering our position as a pole of power. People these days have no ambition.

As for you touching on loyalty, I'll make a comment. It's rather disappointing that modern Americans do not seem to understand loyalty, comradship, and duty, e.g. depending on your metephorical "homeboys" for support and help. Sometimes, I just want to deck these people.

[Sarah]

did you guys really dislike Bush?
Even though I am underage, I was totally rooting for Bush to win. I don't think he did any stupidity things, it was all Clinto--omg, I am not going to continue..i do not want anyone to start yelling at me

[Kinael]

Well, Bush's Cabinet will be changing. Let's hope he'll get some better people in. Losing Powell will be a major blow, especially given that the 'war' in Iraq is over. Those folks at the Defense Department can be shelved, really.

[phlyRy]

Benefit of party vs. country is similar to comment about the skew of priorities of Bush. The problem is very often the people in government do things for the wrong reasons. Bush appealled to the religious people to get re-elected instead of focusing for pressing issues. (disclaimer: i don't remember much from government class in high school so correct me if i'm wrong) Laws are passed through the Congress by means of playing games of appealling to the right groups and having the right combined forces. Easily people can lose sight of the original goals. That being said, when there isn't an opposing party it is easier to lose sight and start benefitting the republican party.

On the other hand, IF they lose sight and thus mess up, the Republican party will have a hard time pinning the blame on anyone else.

Let's just hope that we get a sensible cabinet and that the Republican party not mess up for everyone's sake.


Sarah: I disliked Bush because he doesn't come off intelligent at all. Also, you get the distinct feeling that Bush and his cabinet weren't being honest. Politicians play political games and tend to give answers that aren't satisfying, BUT if you ask the right questions, you can force them to be specific and get to the bottom of things. With something like 911, you would think that they'd talk straight, but no...we have to go into a very drawn out deal.

[Star of Sorrow]

I just hope Bush'll pick better people for his cabinent, and hopefully the country won't go to hell.

About loyalty: There is a difference between being loyal to what the country stands for, and being loyal to the leader of the country. Yeah, I support the troops, but that's usually because they don't really have a choice in saying no. They can't refuse to go wherever the commander in chief sends them, so yeah. I'm loyal to what America stands for, like Rwen, but at the same time, I'm disappointed in the leadership of the country. Not much we can do about it.

And I should stop babbling....

[Kinael]

I don't want to sound like an ass, but seriously, what is the big deal? Republicans swept Congress and reentered the White House. Yeah; so? Just because a lot of you happen to disagree with the Republicans is no cause for all the "..... i hope them rightwing nazis won't screw the country over....." This is getting ridiculous. Maybe the Democrats and liberals should ask themselves why they fielded such a shitty candidate and didn't turn out those bitching kids (the youth vote), who're all over the internet forums and blogs rambling about Bush and the Republicans.

And that 'moral issue' factor, in my opinion, is way overblown. 22% cited 'moral issues' as a major concern; of that 22%, 80% voted for Bush, which makes 17.6% of the grand total. Wow! THE COUNTRY HAS SPOKEN--17.6% of it . . . What the hell are 'moral issues' anyway? Surely there're people who support stem cell research while object to abortion, and vice-versa. That term is nebulous and is not good enough to measure where America stands.

[MacPhisto]

I heard a rumor that Hillary Clinton's running in 2008.

[Kinael]

Yeah; there'll be a lot of pressure on her to run. Having said that, with all the love Democrats have for the Clintons, there is a reciprocal amount of hatred for them from the Republicans. I think she's too polarizing to draw enough votes, but that might change in 8 years. She seems ambitious enough to want to run anyway.

[Eric]

Realistically, the last four years haven't gone that bad. Our GDP is growing at approximately 4% each quarter, and our only recession (defined as a GDP decrease) was one quarter right after 9/11. Come on, sure, it could be better. I would love to see a GDP grow at 8% but that's rather unrealistic in a mature economic environment.

[phlyRy]

Okay. Fine. I actually just took the words of a bitter Democrat to claim that Republicans can't blame it on anyone else if they screwed up. I'm not saying that they would fuck up... Afterall, they aren't stupid. I'm just not entirely thrilled if my emotional support group (i.e. gay people) all leave this country because they can't deal with Bush or that my parents got really upset. So yes, personally, I'm a bit bitter and for very selfish reasons.

I've not been a politically active person, but some people at my school have been discussing how the Democratic party lost. Some even suggest radical changes. Just as I hope the Republicans learned something from the election, I hope the Democrats do too.

One of the problem with the percentages Kinael is talking about is by overall country. It is possible that the population of certain states were dominated by those who voted and thought that the most important issue was moral values. In which case, electoral college would have made it more significant than Kinael is suggesting.

I'm not denying that there are other reason that some people voted for Bush. It's not like Kerry was completely FOR gay marriage. We are in the middle of a war and Kerry is pussyfooting and gave no confidence to people. So why change leadership? However, if we are going to discuss how Bush won, then I think when we look at the figures we need to do it more carefully.

And Hillary Clinton would be a very wise choice for the Democratic party but that doesn't mean she will run. I would find it fascinating if she did and won, because she would be the first female president, which might suggest that the glass ceiling is going away and would be progress. But that's another whole can of worms...and a different topic.